Full Interview Transcript:
Eric Shannon:
All right. Hello, everybody. We are live once again for day five of Arthritis Awareness Week. So if you haven't been with us yet during Arthritis Awareness Week, what we're doing is trying to call attention to what we believe is the most serious health problem facing dogs, because it is so widespread. And not just as they get older. You'll see the title on the screen says, "Wait, it can happen to young dogs too?"
Eric Shannon:
Well, yes, it can. In fact, my dog Hank was first diagnosed with his joint issues when he was less than one year old, and that's what started the roundabout path for me back in 2004 eventually getting into the dog bed world.
Eric Shannon:
So that's the topic of today's discussion, that this can actually happen to young dogs, too. So we have two special guests with us. We have Dr. Hannah Capon, who you've seen with us the last four days as well. She is the founder of Canine Arthritis Management, and she devotes her entire life to helping dogs with arthritis. And we also have Dr. Karen Perry with us today, who is a small animal orthopedic surgeon at Michigan State University. So I'm going to turn it over to you guys.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Hey, guys. It's great to be back. I'm really, really pleased to be introducing a really dear friend of mine, Dr. Karen, who really is going to blow your marbles with how important this disease is, even in the young dogs. So let's start with the first question, Eric. How common is arthritis in a young dog, Karen?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Yeah, this is a huge topic for us. So if we look at some of the information and numbers that we have, then we know that we probably have arthritis in at least 20% of dogs that are over one year of age. So I know sometimes percentages don't translate very well. So if you think about that, it's one in five dogs. So quite a few people have five dogs, probably at least one of them has arthritis by the time it gets to be over 12 months of age.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
And that's a pretty shocking statistic, because we associate arthritis generally with those older patients. And I think it can be incredibly emotional and fairly distressing for owners to hear that their one year old dog, that they still perceive to be a puppy, has arthritis as a lifelong condition that we're going to be dealing with.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah. And I think that's probably a really hard conversation. And we said just before we went live, that I find that probably the most challenging thing is to tell an owner who's got a brand new, shiny, not broken, puppy, and there's a problem. And there's a pushback from owners because they don't want to hear it. And unfortunately, that's not going to help anybody.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
So what we hope today, is that we're going to give you confidence that if you are seeing something, don't shy away from it, because actually you shoot yourself in the foot. What you need to do is embrace it, because it doesn't necessarily mean badness. You do need to know, though. Is that fair to say?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Absolutely. And I think it's one thing when we've got an X-ray, or something very obvious that shows the arthritis. Because you can show that to an owner and say, "Look, definitively, this is what we're dealing with." And I think having something in black and white, it really just shows someone, okay, I can't really deny this anymore. But as you said, at least one in five dogs have this condition. We know that X-rays don't pick the condition up until fairly late on in the process, to be honest. And even a CT scan can miss it if it's just affecting the cartilage in the joint, for example.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So I think the really hard conversations are where you don't have anything definitive that you can show, but you know that this is what the dog is dealing with. And that long term, this is going to be something you're going to need to manage. And that starts, really, the moment you have that diagnosis, that's when we start managing.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah, definitely. And again, I think I just want to add here from a very human point of view. No one's going to blame anyone. I've seen this quite a lot recently, where there seems to be a need to apportion blame to the owner, to the breeder, to somebody that it's happened. That isn't the case. That just doesn't apply to this situation. So don't think that you're going to have your knuckles wrapped, because [inaudible 00:04:13].
Dr. Hannah Capon:
It's not something you've done, so don't shy away from it, but you do need a professional to examine that dog. Cool, let's go on to questions because I think it's really relevant now. What to look for and what to do if your dog could be predisposed to arthritis?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Yeah. And again, this can be a tricky topic because I think, again, if we look back at what we were talking about several years ago, 30, 40 years ago, when we were talking about arthritis, we just associated arthritis with a limping dog, and if the dog wasn't limping, then we went, "It probably doesn't have significant arthritis."
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
And I think we're much, much better now at knowing that limping is just one of the signs that can come along with a dog that has arthritis. And actually it's probably a fairly late sign as well. There's lots and lots of other things that we can be looking at. And what can be really challenging is if this is your first dog, or your first dog of a certain breed, because maybe you don't really know exactly what normal is for that dog. How active should that dog be? How far should they be able to walk and run with you from various ages, et cetera?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So it can be really tricky. It can be just something like a dog that's being a bit of a couch potato, rather than being very active because they're just choosing to avoid the activity. And that's [inaudible 00:05:25] so if you have something like a Newfoundland or a Bernese Mountain Dog or something, they pretend to [inaudible 00:05:30] that more laid back attitude and say, "Well, I'm just going to not exercise because exercising hurts a little bit."
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
However, take that to the extremes of a young Labrador, that's [inaudible 00:05:39] is I'm going to exercise and I'm going to play and I'm going to do whatever I can do. And probably beyond everything that I can do, even if it hurts and I'm going to pay for that later. So it may not be an exercising tolerance or a reluctant stretch [inaudible 00:00:05:51]. It may be exercising like a crazy lunatic and run around looking complete normal, and then just being a little stiff and still took the next day.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
But then you got the ball out again and oh yeah, they're going to go again. That's all going to go. So it can vary a lot of things. It can be stiffness, it can be loneliness, it can be just a dog being a little quiet. It can be a dog shying away from human contact. It could even come out as aggression or it's an ultimate demeanor of that dog [inaudible 00:06:17] behaving in the same way. So loads of different things that we can see just pursuing different means. Sleeping in different positions, choosing to sweep somewhere else maybe. All of these things can be a sign that something's not quite right.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah. And it makes it really hard for owners because they always have that doubt in their mind. And I know that there are owners that don't want to go to the vet because they don't want to flag up something that's not there. And they're worried that they will go, you're wasting my time. Which is a big concern of owners, I've seen it for years. And there's always that fear that it could be a wasted expense if there isn't really something there. So it's good to have the confidence, it's better to get it checked and be wrong and there's nothing there than to not get it checked, there was something, and you've done nothing about it.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
And for me, my ears break because I am obsessed. But if I hear somebody go, "He's just Mr. Lazy," I'm like, "Really?" Why would they be lazy? They've got too much to live for and if your dog is grumpy, dogs aren't grumpy. They're not grumpy. They're lovely. Dogs are amazing they're better than people. So if there's any kind of a negative and you're thinking, "That's a bit of a negative thing to say about dog." `He's not learning quickly is another one. "Oh, he's really sick. He doesn't learn quickly." You hear something like that. that should flag up. There could be something here. So perfect. Next question. Is there anything we can do to influence the disease in young dogs?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Yeah. Huge amounts of things we can do. And I guess that comes back to exactly what we just said. If you have any doubt, any concern it's worth getting the dog checked out for sure. Take them to a veterinarian and have that initial assessment. And this is really important, particularly in younger dogs. And I think sometimes that's contrary to what you would expect, maybe you think it won't get really bad until the dog's older. That's true. The arthritis will get worse as time goes on, but our best chance to intervene and slow down the rate at which it's going to progress and give this dog a really good quality of life despite its condition is early, I would want to intervene super, super early. And in young dogs that's particularly relevant because it will have arthritis at a young age, that normally means they have a predisposing cause. They have an underlying condition which has caused the dog to have arthritis.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
And there are really good treatments available for a lot of those conditions. [inaudible 00:08:56] before we go online I think Hannah had a really good point is that it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a super expensive experience. This doesn't mean that because you bring your dog in and I say, "Yes, you're right. He's not exercising normally, you're right. That swaying gage at the back isn't quite normal. It's not what we expect. And yes, we think your dog has hip dysplasia and associated osteoarthritis even though we're only looking at a dog for six or seven months of age. Now that doesn't mean we're going to be saying, "Right, can you fork over $6,000 for us and we're going to go and do a hip replacement." That's not where we're going to go. We're going to talk to you and say, "If the worst comes to the worst and we can't control it any other way, then hip replacement is our final option.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
It's our option right at the end of the line. But we have so many things leading up to that line, that we'll hopefully keep the dog out of surgery long term if we do them right and if we treat them early early." So all the things like, keeping the dog at the appropriate weight, that's absolutely critical. Keeping the dog on appropriate flooring at home. We might not have outstanding evidence for it, but it makes sense. That the dog's flipping around on [inaudible 00:10:02] flooring all the time and flaring up its condition, it's going to make things worse. It's going to make it harder for the dog to control and remain pain-free. So at home care is super, super important.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Maybe changing diet, maybe the diet that your dog's got on was great for the first month, but maybe now it's time to change. Maybe now it's time to think about a diet that could keep the dog [inaudible 00:10:25] all the way through. We have some great joint specific diets available. All those kind of things, and yeah, there's medication. But it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to medicate your dog. There's so many things before we get to that point and yes, anti-inflammatory, they end up playing a role. Additional analgesics may. Rehab is probably going to be critical. If we get this dog into rehab, definitely a better chance we keep them out of surgery long term. All those things are basically little and easy to do and it keeps the owner involved, it helps the animal pet bond, it does all those things. And then hopefully we keep them out of surgery, but we do have those great surgical options available if they're needed long term.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
I think the definite take home is, don't be scared of it, is what I found with my owners is the earlier that we identify it and we get a routine in place. And once you get this routine, what exercise is correct, how you can make that exercise fun, interesting, and beneficial, what can they eat? And how do we know that they're at the right weight? And how often do I need to just kind of have a quick check over? Once you got that in place, you are free running, you're okay.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
And actually I think what actually helps you keep as an owner, it's really helpful to actually have that diagnosis and also have that guidance from your veterinarian or nurse or whoever's helping you in terms of how to monitor your dog. These are the things to look for, these are the ways that you can monitor your dog. So even when you're seeing your dog every day, you will pick up if things are going downhill, you will pick up if you're needing to change something. And that means that you, as an owner, can have the confidence that you're not ignoring the fact that your dog is in discomfort or in pain, which we all have busy lives and we see our dogs every day. It's easy to ignore that things are slowly, slowly getting worse and having that [inaudible 00:12:09] will help that and avoid that from happening.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah, definitely. I just wish I could put a slide that we use in one of our lectures up where for a vet, I know that I want to treat the young dog when I've got options and I've got a lot of choice and it's going to be low expense and again, good results. But when I have the picture of the dog, that's really debilitating, I know that my options are fewer. I know that they're less effective and the results are not going to be as good. And it is that simple. So if there's one take home that you can get from today is don't be scared of seeing the vet.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
They're lovely like us too. It doesn't mean it's going to be expensive and it's going to burden you for life. It probably is going to actually be the opposite. You're going to feel empowered, in control, and able to manage it longer. And this doesn't just apply to hips. We are talking about other joints, shoulders, elbows, stifles, hips. Joints can be secondary to another cause. And the sooner you get that attended to the better. So Eric, do you want to pop back? And again, some questions go in.
Eric Shannon:
Yes, yes I do. So give me a second to get this banner off of here. We have a bunch of stuff. Okay. First. So Hannah, I think Nicole agrees with you that dogs are better than people.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
The reason why we're vets not doctors, right?
Eric Shannon:
Catherine has a question. Do you suggest a specific diet for osteoarthritis prevention?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
There are a lot out there, so understanding we're not talking one specific brand here. And I think as everyone knows, different dogs cope better with different diets. So be prepared to trial a few, but certainly most of the ones that I would recommend for arthritis prevention are prescription diets. So you are going to need a veterinary prescription in order to get that in place. It's not super hardcore. Most of the companies, if you get one prescription, it's like a lifelong thing. You don't need to keep coming back over and over and over again for that. And you don't always have to get it from a vet and you can still get it from online retailers and shop around for the best price, but you do need a prescription.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So the ones that I use most commonly if you like, are probably the ones from Hills. Hills, JD is a great one for me. Purina do another one, which is called JM, which works very well. And they're both a [inaudible 00:14:32] similar formula. So they're chocked full of Omega-3 fatty acids. And they actually do work to make the whole dog less inflammatory, and therefore less painful. And they have been proved they're one of the few interventions that isn't a drug, which have been proven to make a difference. So if I was going to spend my money somewhere, diet is a big one for me. Yeah.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
And I think for people that do kind of go, "Oh my God, that's out of my price range," don't feel that you are not going to do something by keeping your dog at the right weight. And if that's out of your reach and you are very stuck to the diet because of price reasons, then do your best to keep them at a body condition scoring around about 4/5 to 5/9. And I will again put into your resources and link to the WSAVA body condition score chart so you can learn to make sure that your dog's the right weight. That is so, so important over everything.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Absolutely. And just to add in there are a few concerns with the very specific diets because they're so full of fish oil that they might predispose dogs to gaining weight. They have actually been shown that, they have light versions too and they also have ones that are actually combined with weight loss diets, as well as having the joint diet involved. So you can certainly manage your dog's weight at the same time as being on a joint specific diet. But they are certainly a little pricier than the average food out there.
Eric Shannon:
All right. Question from Judy, "My dog lays like a frog on the floor. Is this okay?" That's one of my favorite positions to see in pictures, but is that okay?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Yeah, absolutely. For me, if your dog is always laying that way then it's probably just, this is the way your dog lays. Certainly my dog often lays that way too because I'm a surgeon and I've got to rule all these things out that my dog does not have a hip problem. So if your dog always leans that way then maybe it's actually okay. If your dog suddenly starts lying in a different position, then that's normally because they're trying to take some pressure or weight off of their joints and maybe that's something to be a little bit more concerned about. Having said that, it's always worth just going and taking your dog to the vet, very easy for the hips to be manipulated and just see are they absolutely 100% normal. So if you have any doubts, just get it checked out, but probably nothing huge to worry about if the dog's always done that.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah. And take a photo with you. I think people really forget how powerful having an image is for the vet, because we're trying to work out what you mean. So take a photo so we can actually see what you're talking about.
Eric Shannon:
Yeah. And that's always made a huge difference for me too. When Hank started limping and stuff, it's hard to get him to replicate it in the vet office. But with cell phones nowadays, it's really helpful.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Yeah.
Eric Shannon:
So Vicki Becker. First, she says she actually has two big Barker beds, one for her lab and one for her GSD, but she's also concerned about her lab puppy. Her legs are abnormally straight. Is that a possible precursor of hip dysplasia?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So, that an interesting one, So we do often see dogs standing with their hocks a little bit more straight when they are trying to offload another joint. And they often actually come into us because owners think the hocks are the problem. And often that's compensatory. However, in my experience that's normally been because of the stifles. So they're actually kind of extending the hock because they don't want to flex and extend the stifles so much. And it can also be because they're throwing their weight boards onto their forelimbs, which is causing their backwards to look straighter. So it can kind of have general hind leg problem. That could be a hip, it could be a stifle. So certainly again, definitely worth getting checked out if they're looking up abnormally straight, because it is a sign that they're shifting that weight forward. So that's usually around the back legs, and it also means they're potentially overloading the front legs a little bit which wouldn't want them to do chronically either. So yeah, definitely recommend getting them checked out. I hope it's nothing super major. [inaudible 00:18:27] But better a little later as we mentioned.
Eric Shannon:
All right, Gary Smith says his boy has arthritis in back hips and front wrists. He's overweight with a breathing issue. How do I help him lose weight? He eats very little, no treats.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
These are tricky, right?
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Tricky. The prescription diets, I think people really do not see the wealth, the benefit that they bring with them. I've had so many people tell me that they're never going to get any weight off of their dog and I put them on to, and I am going to flag it up because I love it, Metabolic Mobility by Hills. I have done so well with this again and again, it's not anecdote, this works. So don't just look at how much you're feeding, look at what you're feeding. Because there's a better diet for you out there.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Right. And I think rehab can play a critical role in getting weight off these patients too. So obviously because your dog's dealing with arthritis, doing a lot of exercise and activity and quickly with the breathing issue, that's going to be a little scary. We don't want them to do too much high impact activity. But in a rehab facility they can certainly do a lot with water treadmill therapy which can be slow and it really makes them work quite hard. And that way they can very easily monitor the breathing while he's in the treadmill and stop the treadmill if wherever they're getting a little over heated or something. So a lot more controllable than just being in a pool, but still can be great doing some obstacle courses, doing some rehab in that way. That's for me, in conjunction with the diet, that's the way to get the weight off quickest.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah. And I will say a little anecdotal story. I had a client that had a dog that had laryngeal paralysis and arthritis and they felt that they were hitting a brick wall. They really didn't know where to go. And they felt that this condition was making this worse and this condition was making this worse and they just were going to give up. And they actually went, no, we're not. We're going to do the laryngeal surgery. And then we're going to approach it. The dog did brilliantly. He did really amazingly for another two years. So talk to your vet and say, "I know I've got two conditions. But what can we do?" I just think you have to have a really good communication with your vet. And I'm going to say, if you're not having good communication with your vet, then seek a second opinion.
Eric Shannon:
All right, the next one, this is going to be a long one. And so it's going to cover some faces. So get ready.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Ooh.
Eric Shannon:
So Diana says, "I have a 19 month old pup from the British Virgin Islands who has severe hip dysplasia. We've tried laser therapy and underwater treadmill, and she had built a tiny bit of muscle, but she continues to scream in pain when my other dogs play with her and then she limps for hours after. She also cannot poop without lifting her leg up. The vet supervising her PT says, she now believes she needs surgery. Advice on total hip versus the FHO? She wants so much to be active, and I don't want to," then it kind of ends here. So when you answer that, if you can explain what FHO..
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Absolutely. Yeah. This is exactly what we're thinking about, when we're reaching the rode, where we've done all the things we think we can do medically and we've made all those lifestyle changes and we've still got dogs that are in pain we do have some great surgical options available. So if we imagine the hip, this is your acetabulum and your pelvis, or the cup that the top of the femur sits in. And then we've got a head of the femur that sits in here. This is your hip joint here. And the difference between what's called an FHO, which is a femoral head ostectomy oftentimes also known as femoral head and neck excision, they're the same thing. And a total hip replacement is a hip replacement retains that normal anatomy, so you still have a cup and you still have a femoral head, but they're plastic [inaudible 00:22:16].
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So that's going to be a hip replacement, very similar [inaudible 00:22:10] people. FHO on the other hand says, actually we're going to get rid of this normal anatomy and we're actually just going to cut the head of the femur off entirely. So you end up with the acetabulum sitting near the cup and got remodeling into a pretty much a flat shaped cup, a flat edge on the edge of your hip here. And you have a joint that works flat on flat rather than the ball and socket that you had previously. So that's the kind of two different procedures. As you can appreciate this model, total hip replacement maintains normal anatomy. It maintains the normal motion of the hip. So the dog will be able to flex, extend, move the hip in its absolutely normal way. And that will be pain free. Following an FHO in contrast, you can imagine this joint doesn't work the same way.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So the range of motion is absolutely anticipated to be a little bit more limited. If someone grabs that hip and pulls it all the way back, it will still be painful because that joint's not meant to do that anymore. But the range of motion the dog has, will be pain-free. And certainly it's still a great procedure. So why people choose one over the other? I'm going to be honest. A lot of the time cost comes into this. There's a big difference between the two. A hip replacement in our hands [inaudible 00:23:24] so we're talking about $6000 and for a hip replacement versus something more like about %2,500 to $3000 for the FHO, so it's about half the price. The other thing that scares people a little with hip replacement is anyone who's had a human friend who's got one done, there can be complications.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So normally they're very, very effective, they work super well. And if you're dog's one of those, then you're going to be super happy that it will bounce back and be great. But if they get infected, if the dog isn't rested very strictly by [inaudible 00:23:52] then we can get into some really quite nasty complications that do require more surgery and more expense. So you have to be able to rest that dog very, very well for about four weeks. And if you can't, it's not the procedure to do at all. And I certainly wouldn't do it just with $6,000 in the bank.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
Because if you do that, and then you do need to have something else done, then you're going to end up with a very expensive FHO at the end. So dogs are [inaudible 00:24:15] with both, it's just being aware with an FHO that they will have a slightly altered weight on that dog. You'll be able to see a limp, especially if it's a larger dog, but it sounds like this. Larger dogs you will se a limp, it won't have a normal range of motion, but it will be pain-free doing day to day activities and it will function. Well, probably. [inaudible 00:24:39] you're more likely to have to do both hips at some point. With a hip replacement you're less likely to have to do both. So that's kind of some of the pros and cons without wanting to go on too long.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
She's amazing. Isn't she?
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
We have another bigger one. So Hanna, be prepared to get hidden again. Cat Higgins says, "Good morning! Able to manage to get to this one. I'm one of those owners. One and a half year old golden doodle that weighs around a hundred pounds that has double hip dysplasia. What can I do to help him when he's having a restless night? He will pace back and forth. When he does lay down, he goes shift from one side to the other, can never find a good spot. His left hurts more than the right. Could arthritis be setting in or just his hips being out? He used to love to run around and be crazy, and now he's just a sad," and then it kind of cuts off there.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
That's sad. I think this highlights one of those really common misconceptions when we have hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, and cruciate disease, any of those conditions. The arthritis is actually there from the beginning. From the moment we diagnose the arthritis is already there. Whether we can see it on x-rays or not, they can't have that condition and not have arthritis. So it's in there and it probably is progressing. In terms of the hip being in and out, with the dog being now, I think it was one and a half. I think that's what was said. We're probably not doing so much with it popping in and out anymore. Instability tends to get less and less as they get to more about the age of two, the hips are not really popping in and out anymore because they formed a lot of scar tissue around the joint.
Dr. Karen Perry-Butler:
So I would anticipate that a big proportion of the pain we're dealing with now is going to be arthritic pain as opposed to instability pain, but there may still be a little of instability associated. So in terms of keeping dogs comfortable, lots of things we can do. I've seen weight loss, rehab, and those kind of things as we've talked about before. And it sounds like you're doing the laser therapy and those kind of things. It may be time to start thinking about introducing inflammatory therapy and see if that helps. So that would probably be my next thing. And then we can give that maybe with dinner, so that it's having that peak activity at night, if that's when it seems to be doing the most uncomfortable. Non steroidal anti inflammatories are actually very well tolerated in the vast majority of dogs. So if that was my dog and that discomfort was the evidence, that's kind of where I would be going, as well as looking at all those at home things we talked about before, make sure they're not on slippery floors, making sure we've got nice, comfortable beds, all those kinds of things.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Yeah. And I think to add to that, is something that I deal with a lot with owners is that they think that that intervention is now for life. And I think that's what puts people off going there. It doesn't need to be, because it buys you a window of opportunity to put other changes in place. So by having the dog not uncomfortable and not in pain, they're going to start using their hips again, they're going to start rebuilding the muscle and the function that's going to stabilize the hips further and we're going to need less anti-inflammatory. But you need to step into that zone.
Dr. Hannah Capon:
You're going to be looking at an anti-inflammatory for a period of time. Something else that really upsets me is when these drugs, which are incredible what we can do now, aren't given a chance. And I have to accept you're going to be on it for a while. And when you put all the home work in and then hopefully you'll be able to come off a bit thereafter or lower the dose or use it transiently, intermittently. But don't be shy of going to your vet. My ears are breaking. My little light bulbs are going off that you really need to see the vet for that one.
Eric Shannon:
Right. And also, I mean, this is a prime candidate for a Big Barker bed. Cat, if you don't have one already, I mean, definitely look at one. And if you haven't seen the clinical study is for dogs like this. I mean the clinical study at University of Pennsylvania took dogs that were 70 pounds or bigger that had diagnosed cases of arthritis and gave them a Big Barker bed for four weeks. And we'll put a link to the study if you're signed up for the event, at bigbarker.com/aaw. But basically after four weeks, the dogs had less joint pain, restored joint function, better mobility, and lots of other things as well. We can send you a report later, but yeah, definitely look at one, if you don't have one already. So I have a comment here from Catherine says her grand dog had an FHO and-
Dr. Hannah Capon:
Well done, good efforts. [crosstalk 00:28:53] That brilliant that you're put up there because it gives people confidence. And I think people, they're scared of the unknown and its their best [inaudible 00:28:59] and they're doing something really invasive and they're terrified that it might be the bad choice. So well done, Catherine, thanks for putting up there.
Eric Shannon:
And then the last one, this isn't a question. This is a comment from Jennifer Jackson, which I think does a great job of summing up why we all put so much effort into fighting against arthritis is just the sentiment here. "When we had Rascal Jr. and it got to the point where he couldn't walk around the block because of his arthritis, we still made him feel that he did real good. We would put his leash on and I would walk him to the street and I knew he couldn't go no further, but I said, look at you, you did it, so proud of you. And I know that made him feel good." Any of us have been in that experience, that probably moistens our eyes.
Eric Shannon:
So I think that's a good place to wrap up. Not just today's presentation but arthritis week. So I want to thank both of you and Hannah, thanks for being with us all five days. I think we have tremendous presentations. So everybody watching go to big barker.com/aaw we'll put a link with this video. And if you go there, we will email you not just this presentation, but the other four presentations plus a ton of resources we've talked about this week, plus the clinical study that I mentioned earlier. So go ahead and do that. www.bigbarker.com/aaw. Thank you both. Thank you everybody. And have a great week.
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